Idiot of the Day
There is something about this guy that sums up everything that is wrong with everything. Ever. He is the cliched view of what a Tory is. All that is missing in his picture is a rifle and a dead burgalar lying in his front room with a gunshot wound in his back.
Partly it is the picture, which makes him look like a cross between the Wurzels and a retard character from Last of the Summer Wine. But it also statements like this:
"I am one of the last English peasants and I want a new Peasants' Revolt - but who is out there to lead it?"You want a new Peasants' Revolt? Well, I'm all for opposing the government, but given your appearance, general concerns and terrible, terrible writing, I hope you get your peasant's revolt. I hope you lead it. And I hope government crushes it - and you - without mercy. Thus allowing us with opposable thumbs to take up the fight against the consensus with a little more coherence, relevance and common sense.
Oh, and he would be writing for The Daily Fucking Mail, wouldn't he?
Cross-posted at The Daily Mail Tendency.
Labels: Idiot of the Day, Morons
posted by The Nameless Libertarian @ 11:51 am
5 Comments
5 Comments:
Apart from looking just as you say, and being a little daily mail in his wording, that blog entry could just as easily have been written by yourself, DK or Obnoxio.
Perhaps I've missed something - could you tell me what exactly you disagreed with in that entry?
*Sighs*
I don't think Obnoxio or DK would have written that post, but I can't speak for them. I know I certainly couldn't, and i would have thought that would be obvious. But if you want the full list of what I object to:
- I believe there is someone out there offering a real alternative - LPUK, hence my membership.
- I don't want a "new Peasants' Revolt" - I don't agree with the idea of revolution, I don't consider myself to be a peasant and would argue that there haven't been any peasants in this country since, well, the peasant's revolt.
- I don't rate James Goldsmith, or the Referendim Party, and certainly do not credit them with saving the pound or Britain's independence.
- I certainly wouldn't use "ex-public schoolboy" as an insult - not least because I am one. Although as Page shows in a later post, being an ex-public schoolboy means you can be referred to as "gay boy", which means he was actually being quite polite in this post.
- I am not, and never have been, a paid-up member of UKIP. From my observations of UKIP, though, I'd say Farage is one of the best things that ever happened to UKIP. And if the executive has stolen the party from the grass-roots, it is because the latter group is best represented by Page and his ilk (one of the main reasons why I never joined UKIP.)
- I don't want conservative values with a small "c". I am a Libertarian; the parochial nature and social conservatism of any party offering conservatism with a small "c" is alien to me.
- I don't believe that immigration is anywhere near the problem Page makes it out to be. In fact, I favour immigration for economic reasons.
- The whole point of Page's blog seems to be to win Cameron over to his way of thinking. I do not believe Cameron can be won over to my way of thinking, not least because I am not a Tory.
If you seriously think that my views are the same as that of Page, then you need to go away and read some more of this blog - especially the posts on being Libertarian. Page is as alien to me as Gordon Brown.
TNL
Fair enough. I withdraw the injudicious "could have been written by", that was an oversimplification which was not justified in the slightest.
However, I feel that there is commonality between conservative (small c) and libertarian (of which I consider myself one) viewpoints. That's why I commented.
Blindly calling anyone who differs even slightly from us "idiots" is not going to achieve anything. The fact that you had to go into such detail about where you differ demonstrates that this was not quite as cut and dried as "idiot" makes it seem.
Here's why I think you have been overly quick to judge:
- "A peasants revolt" is obviously rhetoric. It was included in a paragraph about standing for an alternative political party. Treating it as literal rather than metaphorical is disingenuous. In that same sense, LPUK wants a peasants revolt - "peasant" meaning "us normal folk", and "revolt" meaning "something other than labour/conservative". DK often writes about hanging MPs from lamposts, I don't think he means that literally either (although...)
- While you might not rate James Goldsmith, that's beside the point, the blogger is saying that that is a moment when Britain was encouraged to stand up against more European integration and wishes for something similar now. Again, LPUK is in favour of withdrawal from the EU.
- Neither would I use "ex-public schoolboy" as an insult; and there is never an excuse for ad hominem attacks when deciding policy. However, there are plenty of ad hominem attacks from you, that are funny and have their place ("a cross between the Wurzels and a retard character from Last of the Summer Wine"), so you shouldn't be the first to throw stones in that respect.
- UKIP, details - who cares, but LPUK are broadly in agreement with them: out of Europe. There own internal squabbles are beside the point.
- I'm quite sure you don't want to be a conservative. Me either. But "small state", "free market", "personal responsibility" as ideas have a lot more in common with libertarianism than you admit.
- Immigration is a difficult issue, he obviously doesn't like it. LPUK say in the manifesto that they want strong border controls too though.
- Cameron stuff we can ignore.
"As alien as Gordon Brown" I have to take issue with. I hope the above shows why. If the libertarian party is to succeed I think that "real Torys" like this chap are the place to win people over. There are strong points of commonality, and perhaps with a bit of Libertarian propaganda, these people can be won over. There are obviously going to be hard liners who are unwilling to change their views, and perhaps Page is one such. There are others though, who at present throw themselves in with him, who might appreciate a more rational place to put themselves.
My point is not helped by the fact that (having read some of his other posts) I suspect he is an idiot. I hope that that doesn't diminish anything I've said above.
Well, I can see your point, but can also identify what may be the point of departure between us. As a Libertarian, I'd reject a lot of what being a conservative with a small c stands for. Sure, the free market and the small state etc are all phrases I like hearing, but with conservatism there comes a healthy dose of social conservatism, which is something I cannot sign up to.
To look at the points you raise:
- Talking of a peasant's revolt is both ignorant and patronising. Page is rabble rousing; it is undignified, and it is crass. It is a stab at populism without a bit of understanding of how modern politics works and what happened in history. You are right; DK talks of hanging politicians from lamp posts. But I am not DK, and I generally refrain from such rhetoric. There are other ways that I prefer to use to express my contempt for politicians.
- LPUK is in favour of withdrawal from the EU; as have many politicians been since we signed up. The Referendum party's aims may have been in line with the LPUK; their methods (and often loutish behaviour) are what I really struggle with. Witness the David Mellor incident. Pointless, and reinforcing the stereotype about Euro-sceptics.
- I do attack people who I see as idiots, but that is because they have offended me in some way: either through their politics, their ignorance or their own attacks on groups I identify myself with. I'll hold my hands up and say that may not be the most constructive way of dealing with people and is on occasion childish. Yet reading more and more of Page's writings convinces me that I was right and he is an idiot. An idiot who looks like the cliched vision of a bumpkin.
- UKIP, indeed, who cares? Yet in my humble opinion they have been buried by the likes of Page and by being identified with mindless anti-EU rhetoric. LPUK have far more to offer than UKIP, and need to make sure that they stress this.
- All the terms you use are music to the ears of Libertarians; the social conservatism of the Tories and the likes of Page really isn't.
- Immigration is a tough one, and the Libertarian position is more complicated than just wanting tighter border controls (although I concede that is part of the LPUK position). Immigration is something I struggle with in regard to the policies of every party, including LPUK, as my own opinions are much more liberal than most parties would agree to. And it is worth noting that it is as an individual that I object to Page, rather than as a member of LPUK.
- Cameron: I'd love to ignore him, but you can't. What I would say is that Page's insane view that Cameron is going to listen to him is stupidly naive. For all his faults, Cameron will know that they very last type of person he should pander to is Page. To do so would be electoral suicide.
I don't see a great deal of difference between Page and Brown. They are both dullards, they are both unthinking ideologues, they are both mindless class warriors. I can find points of agreement and departure with both of them; you can be sure I would cross the street to avoid both of them.
LPUK will have to win over people from all parts of the political spectrum. Winning over Page and his ilk should not be a priority. There are far more reasonable and intelligent people from all political camps within the UK who LPUK should target first.
Your point certainly isn't devalued by the acknowledgement that Page may be an idiot; in fact, conceding this makes and raising points on issues rather than defending Page (who, and pardon the coming attack, seems to be a grade A, vintage moron) raises the tone of our debate no end.
TNL
Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.
I think we're now at the point where we would each be finding longer and longer ways of agreeing with each other. In other words: debate over.
Thanks very much for responding.
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