Tuesday, December 29, 2009

Have Your Say on the Execution of Akmal Shaikh

Nothing like the tragic and inhuman execution of a mentally ill man over drugs offences to bring out the very worst of people. On the BBC Have Your Say website, of course.

First up is david garner:
It may seem harsh but I suspect that it will deter others from doing this. If we had this in the uk I expect that drug smuggling would decline at an interesting rate. Heroin brings nothing but misery to the families and those who are addicted - a thought for them!
Yes, this will deter other people from becoming drug dealers. Just as it deterred this poor fella. And just as the death penalty in the US for murder has stopped murders happening there. Oh, wait...

Stephen has some comments he, for reasons that defy understanding, felt he should share with the world:
Given the devastating consequences wreaked by drug dealing all over the globe, the ruination of individuals and families, the cause of an enormous amount of criminal activity, not least murder, the immeasureable damage to communities, and the cost to the public purse - the punishment should be of the severest kind: execution without a shadow of a doubt!
I think Stephen gets a little hard when he talks about executions.

Bernard is looking for the silver lining to the cloud of Chinese executions:
At least China have the decency to execute criminals quickly after conviction. Unlike the USA who let them rot for decades in jail and then execute them when an election is due.
God, yes, that does seem like the decent thing to do - if you're going to put someone to death, then for God's sake do it quickly. If nothing else, then it can prevent any thought or reflection that might result in a state not killing a mentally ill man. And we couldn't have that now, could we?

Rick from Hong Kong has a deeply tedious addition to the debate:
Think of how many lives that could/would have been ruined by this mans drugs. I know the death penalty is extreme but it is needed to stop other people from threatening the lives of the people. How many thousands of people die from (illegal) drug related illnesses?

I think that the UK government could learn a lesson here.
Yes, but given the teaching here is "it is ok to murder mentally ill people" I kind of don't want the British government to learn the lesson here.

Mick Waite has a list of people he wants to kill:
It all boils down to the first thing you're taught in primary school when someone retaliates. "Two wrongs don't make a right." Even if he knew what he was doing was wrong, he, like everyone else on death row in the world does not deserve to die.

Will, England

Will,
There are MANY people in this world who DO deserve to die.
Terrorists, Child rapists, serial killers, Drug and People trafficers,are just a few that deserve to loose their lives.
I hope your never a victim of these people.
Personally, I would execute people who can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're". No-one listens to me, fortunately. Just as - mercifully, and hopefully in perpetuity - no-one listens to Mick Waite.

Besides, Mick Waite just can't quite match the vitriol of one Michael Lloyd:
Yet another so-called "British" citizen dragging the name of this country through the international mud. I fully agree with China on this one, and the sooner we in this country do the same the better. Either we want to eliminate drug dealing, or we don't. These peddlers in death deserve death themselves. Let's hear a lot less from the bleeding heart brigade.
Here's a thought, we could eliminate drug dealing by legalising drugs. But I guess that would make me part of the "bleeding heart brigade" that Lloyd wishes to silence. See, that's the distinction between Lloyd and other, lesser Have Your Say ravers - Lloyd not only wants drug dealers to be executed, but he also wants everyone who might disagree with him to shut the hell up. That is proper, unthinking fascist rage here. Magic.

Finally - mainly because I can't cope with much more - we have Kaz, who has insights into mental illness that are ground-breaking in their stultifying ignorance:
Whether he was took drugs to China deliberately or not is now a moot point. If the law is death for drug smuggling, then so be it. If, as the family claim, this man was bi-polar and had mental issues, do they not have some responsibility for his care? What on earth possessed them to let him travel the world on his own if he was in such a vulnerable state.
Rest assured, members of Kaz's family, if you ever suffer from mental illness, she will be there for you. Probably by having you locked up in hospital or sealing you in the attic. But rest assured, she'll do it because she is responsible. And she cares.

It dents my faith in humanity that the Chinese would execute someone with mental illness. What really kills my faith in humanity - what bashes it in the head and then pisses on it as it lies broken in the gutter - is this sort of pig ignorance from people who see drugs as evil, executions as good and mental illness as something to be deeply suspicious of.

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15 Comments:

At 2:00 pm , Blogger Guy Fawkes II said...

My heart sank when I went over to the HYS website when I saw the shooting gallery of fucktards express their rabid opinions. I agree with you on every ground. It's depressing to see those sad bastards on HYS gloat over this. Like feeding time for the bloodhounds over there.

 
At 2:20 pm , Blogger bnzss said...

It's hilarious when the BBC turns on the Moron Magnet.

 
At 2:43 pm , Blogger bnzss said...

But on the subject itself... I'm not sure bipolar disorder quite counts as a mental disorder enough to get you off the charge of drug trafficking... in this country or any other.

Just a hunch I have.

 
At 3:08 pm , Blogger Guy Fawkes II said...

BenS: There's various types of Bipolar Disorder. As someone who is mentally ill myself, distortions in perception is something that is common within bipolarity.

And the point isn't getting him "off the charge"; it's taking a more pragmatic approach instead of fucking killing the guy.

 
At 3:08 pm , Blogger The Nameless Libertarian said...

BenS,

Well, bipolar disorder certainly doesn't get you clemency in China. That much is clear.

Of course, it depends on the severity of the mental disorder. It sounds like this gentleman was very mentally ill and had little grasp on reality. It may not simply have been bipolar disease that Shaikh suffered from. And if you read some of his symptoms and behaviour, particularly in the Reprieve website, you'll probably end up questioning quite why he had to die (which is the issue here, not getting off the charge).

TNL

 
At 3:15 pm , Blogger Guy Fawkes II said...

Just read the Reprieve website. Here's what it says on the issue of a medical evaluation:

"The last minute failure to allow a proper medical evaluation followed months of intransigence by the Chinese authorities. Reprieve first asked for an evaluation by a local expert in April 2009, which was initially granted but then refused. Reprieve paid for Dr Peter Schaapveld to fly more than 7000 miles to Urumqi to evaluate Akmal in May 2009. The Chinese had agreed to him meeting with Akmal but then, after his arrival, reneged. Repeated requests since that time went ignored. Chinese authorities refused Dr Schaapveld an entry visa on Christmas Day, when he again offered to come to conduct a full and free evaluation. China could have allowed a full medical evaluation months ago and still concluded the case this year."

I'd agree with you, TNL. This is very questionable.

 
At 3:39 pm , Blogger bnzss said...

Oh, don't get me wrong, I dislike China immensely and think the idea that someone can be killed for carrying drugs utterly disgusting.

And yeah I'm no expert, of course, and I understand the stink has been kicked up because the Chinese justice system is, to be frank, more of a joke than ours. I just wonder if he'd have gotten anything other than a very long jail sentence here anyway, even with a valid psychiatric assessment. Maybe I care more about the fact that the death penalty is still the punishment for drug trafficking, than the fact the Chinese justice system doesn't care about mental illness.

It's unfortunate that we know next to fuck all about it though.

Oh well, maybe when the govt stops extraditing British citizens to the US in a very dodgy one-way agreement they can take the moral high ground.

 
At 3:42 pm , Blogger The Nameless Libertarian said...

Also from the Reprieve website:

Bi-polar disorder is an acute and debilitating disease and is described by the expert Dr Kay Jamison of John Hopkins University School of Medicine as “destroying the basis of rational thought.” Occasionally, severe episodes of mania or depression include symptoms of psychosis or psychotic symptoms. It is highly likely that these professional drug smugglers knew that he was suffering from a mental illness and could be readily manipulated.

At one appeal hearing, against the very strong advice of his lawyers, Akmal read aloud a long, rambling and often incoherent personal statement to the court. Greeted with incredulity and sometimes mirth by court officials, the 50-minute speech demonstrates Akmal’s severe mental unbalance.

On the same day, Reprieve obtained a series of bizarre emails written by Akmal and sent to the British Embassy in Poland. The emails, which number in the hundreds and are exceedingly strange, provide further evidence of a severely disturbed mind.

In the days and hours leading up to Akmal's execution, six independent witnesses came forward to attest to his severe illness. Their statements are below. These statements, together with the full case file on Akmal Shaikh, have been sent repeatedly to the Chinese authorities, and apparently ignored.


That's the man the Chinese executed.

*Shakes head*

TNL

 
At 3:56 pm , Blogger bnzss said...

I'll consider myself cautiously enlightened!

Not that I'd have expected any other outcome for the poor sod anyway.

 
At 4:24 pm , Blogger The Nameless Libertarian said...

BenS,

Agreed. Sadly, the Chinese government had decided this guy was going to die. And they weren't going to let compassion stand in their way.

TNL

 
At 4:32 pm , Blogger bnzss said...

That is what happens when you start treating individuals like statistics.

 
At 4:35 pm , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interestingly this section of the HYS website is offline due to 'severe technical difficulties', perhaps I am being premature but I wonder if too much free speech might be making the chinese govt irritable?
My fave was the guy who asked how he had managed to buy a ticket and get a visa if he was mentally incompetent (umm.. because the people who convinced him to do this sorted it all out for him maybe?) He then went on to ask why if he was mentally ill this wasn't proven before the court, (again, perhaps because the Chinese courts refused to hear the evidence or to allow non Chinese medical records to be used as evidence as we have heard from Reprieve. Always has to be black and white and simple for some people.

 
At 7:32 pm , Anonymous schlumpf23 said...

Some of my colleagues at work today were discussing this matter & voiced many of the opinions you've highlighted here. Sometimes I truly despair.

 
At 8:26 pm , Blogger The Nameless Libertarian said...

Yep. When I read the views of many Have Your Sayers, I remember that these people have the right to vote. Then I feel sick with worry.

 
At 12:50 pm , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The distribution of replies was so heavily skewed towards the hardliners that I came to wonder whether HYS hadn't been the target of a devious Chinese propaganda campaign. If these really represent the views of my fellow citizens, it's time to emigrate.

 

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